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Thread: Hardy Fish For Fish-in Cycle

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    DIYFK member Esos's Avatar


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    Question Hardy Fish For Fish-in Cycle

    I'm looking for hardy fishes for fish-in cycle, I can't do fishless cycle because can't find pure ammonia chloride. It's like banned stuff in here IDK why. So I'm going cycle my new tank with fish-in method but don't know what type of fish is good for fish-in cycle.

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    DIYFK member dlboge's Avatar


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    Fish-in cycle just adds one step to the food to ammonia cycle (and more time). Forget the fish! I'm a chemist, forget the ammonia! Just add food and let nature take its course. Beneficial bacteria need lots of elements to survive other than ammonia. Sodium, calcium, magnesium, iron, phosphorus, etc. Food provides this while bottled ammonia only provides ammonia. Bottled ammonia specifically does not provide carbon dioxide, and beneficial bacteria need a lot of carbon dioxide. Just don't change the water when it goes cloudy. Just let it be and you'll be just fine.

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    DIYFK member Meep's Avatar


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    You don't need to use ammonia for a fishless cycle, you can do it with a few pinches of fish food or even a small piece of raw fish or shrimp... You can also use urine, yes your pee...

    As for a hardy fish, price wise nothing really can compare to feeder guppies or feeder goldfish...

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    DIYFK member HillbillyHomer's Avatar


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    Use P. Click here to enlarge...SAVE the guppys...Click here to enlarge

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    DIYFK member Esos's Avatar


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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dlboge Click here to enlarge
    Fish-in cycle just adds one step to the food to ammonia cycle (and more time). Forget the fish! I'm a chemist, forget the ammonia! Just add food and let nature take its course. Beneficial bacteria need lots of elements to survive other than ammonia. Sodium, calcium, magnesium, iron, phosphorus, etc. Food provides this while bottled ammonia only provides ammonia. Bottled ammonia specifically does not provide carbon dioxide, and beneficial bacteria need a lot of carbon dioxide. Just don't change the water when it goes cloudy. Just let it be and you'll be just fine.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Meep Click here to enlarge
    You don't need to use ammonia for a fishless cycle, you can do it with a few pinches of fish food or even a small piece of raw fish or shrimp... You can also use urine, yes your pee...

    As for a hardy fish, price wise nothing really can compare to feeder guppies or feeder goldfish...
    Really? I actually did it, I adding fish food everyday once a day. But I read some article that says using fish food method isn't effective because the ammonia that fish food produce isn't pure and isn't enough, and using bottled bacteria starter also isn't effective too because most of the bacteria already dead that's why we always adding everyday to replace the dead bacteria.
    From that I started to think then it's better using fish-in cycle since the fish waste & feed em will produce what the beneficial bacteria needs.
    Then how long should I do this fish food method before introduce fish into my fish tank? Can I add one or two fish after a month?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by HillbillyHomer Click here to enlarge
    Use P. Click here to enlarge...SAVE the guppys...Click here to enlarge
    Hahaha no thanks, I still have a lot of fish food to use and don't think want to pee on my fish tank it would be gross btw lol Click here to enlarge

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    DIYFK member Esos's Avatar


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    Oh and which one is better the sponge filter or hang on the back filter? Because I'm using sponge filter but it seems didn't catch the floating micro particles, IDK if that micro particle is can be remove or not but it's kinda annoying to see I want a crystal clear water in my fish tank. I don't have people selling aquaclear, tetra or fluval filtration in here the only brand I have access to is just resun, amara, atman & jebo have you guys ever heard that brand? Which brand is best?
    FYI Atman is the most expensive brand and jebo is the cheapest one, and I'm considering to get jebo since the filter is just a container to add bio media and make the water flow thru it I don't think I should go for the expensive one because it just the same function just the brand that makes it more expensive.

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    DIYFK member Meep's Avatar


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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Esos Click here to enlarge
    But I read some article that says using fish food method isn't effective because the ammonia that fish food produce isn't pure and isn't enough
    It's not as ideal a pure ammonia but it will get the job done, albeit a little slower...

    it would be gross btw lol Click here to enlarge
    Fish pee and poo in the tank all day long, that is literally what the beneficial bacteria in the tank feeds on...

    It only takes a few drops of urine to feed the tank, it's not like you are pouring it in by the liter...

    Oh and which one is better the sponge filter or hang on the back filter?


    IMO the hang on the back is far superior... As for brands I'm not familiar with most of the brands you listed, but I suspect many of them are Asia imports... That said the Asian import HoB filters work OK but they are generally noisier then name brand ones... There is also some HoB filters that have surface skimmer built in that might benefit your needs...

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    DIYFK member Esos's Avatar


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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Meep Click here to enlarge
    It's not as ideal a pure ammonia but it will get the job done, albeit a little slower...



    Fish pee and poo in the tank all day long, that is literally what the beneficial bacteria in the tank feeds on...

    It only takes a few drops of urine to feed the tank, it's not like you are pouring it in by the liter...



    [/COLOR]IMO the hang on the back is far superior... As for brands I'm not familiar with most of the brands you listed, but I suspect many of them are Asia imports... That said the Asian import HoB filters work OK but they are generally noisier then name brand ones... There is also some HoB filters that have surface skimmer built in that might benefit your needs...
    Wow thanks for replying all my questions

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    DIYFK member Sasquatch's Avatar


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    pure ammonia chloride can be made for making bombs. That's why it's illegal there. At least that's what I've heard.

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    DIYFK member Meep's Avatar


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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sasquatch Click here to enlarge
    pure ammonia chloride can be made for making bombs. That's why it's illegal there. At least that's what I've heard.
    As a 'legal' hobby pyrotechnic (fireworks) tinkerer and someone who enjoys chemistry overall, the current (global) policy to ban many common chemicals because they might be used for an explosive aggravates me to no end. Even in the US, it's getting close to the point where I might need to jump through all the hoops and red tape to get an ATF high explosive license just to make even a basic sparkler or smoke bomb...

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    DIYFK member Esos's Avatar


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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sasquatch Click here to enlarge
    pure ammonia chloride can be made for making bombs. That's why it's illegal there. At least that's what I've heard.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Meep Click here to enlarge
    As a 'legal' hobby pyrotechnic (fireworks) tinkerer and someone who enjoys chemistry overall, the current (global) policy to ban many common chemicals because they might be used for an explosive aggravates me to no end. Even in the US, it's getting close to the point where I might need to jump through all the hoops and red tape to get an ATF high explosive license just to make even a basic sparkler or smoke bomb...
    Yeah, that's what I heard too..
    BTW I'm getting my HOB filter and running for almost 12 hrs by now and it does better than sponge filter, no more micro floating particles in my water Click here to enlarge
    I added some ceramic ring as a media for beneficial bacteria to live on my HOB filter, it's not much but it's better than nothing at all.

    I still have some questions, hope you can help me again.
    Is the sponge in HOB and actived carbon that came with it have an expiry date, like have to change every 6 months or something like that? Because from what I heard it's better not too often to clean up the filter because that's where the beneficial bacteria live and we only have to rinse the sponge with the aquarium water. But IDK with the activated carbon.
    Is the HOB filter provide oxygen or should I add aerator for the oxygen?
    One last question, do you have any suggestions for freshwater fish is good for nano planted tank (10 gallon)?

  12. #12
    DIYFK member Meep's Avatar


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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Esos Click here to enlarge
    Is the sponge in HOB and actived carbon that came with it have an expiry date, like have to change every 6 months or something like that?
    Yes, it does 'fill' up with organic toxins/chemicals and then basically is just inert media for bacteria to grow on... How fast and soon this happens depends on the concentration of organic toxins/chemicals in the water...

    Because from what I heard it's better not too often to clean up the filter because that's where the beneficial bacteria live and we only have to rinse the sponge with the aquarium water. But IDK with the activated carbon.
    If you properly maintain your tank and do regular water changes (using clean and/or pre-treated water) there is no reason or need for charcoal... In that regard if you want to change it when you 'rinse' the filter media, go ahead for many filter cartridges you can simply cut a small slit in the media at the top and empty out the old stuff and put some new stuff in, no need to fish the slit you cut in if it's at the top.

    Is the HOB filter provide oxygen or should I add aerator for the oxygen?


    Yes, in most instances a HoB will agitate the surface enough to keep the oxygen level AOK...

    One last question, do you have any suggestions for freshwater fish is good for nano planted tank (10 gallon)?


    Fancy guppies, or a single male betta and/or a male betta and female or two...

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    DIYFK member HillbillyHomer's Avatar


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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Esos Click here to enlarge
    One last question, do you have any suggestions for freshwater fish is good for nano planted tank (10 gallon)?
    Click here to enlarge...i would go with one male and two female Guppys for a 10g tank...Click here to enlarge

    What kind of plants do you plan on having?

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    DIYFK member Esos's Avatar


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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Meep Click here to enlarge
    Yes, it does 'fill' up with organic toxins/chemicals and then basically is just inert media for bacteria to grow on... How fast and soon this happens depends on the concentration of organic toxins/chemicals in the water...



    If you properly maintain your tank and do regular water changes (using clean and/or pre-treated water) there is no reason or need for charcoal... In that regard if you want to change it when you 'rinse' the filter media, go ahead for many filter cartridges you can simply cut a small slit in the media at the top and empty out the old stuff and put some new stuff in, no need to fish the slit you cut in if it's at the top.



    Yes, in most instances a HoB will agitate the surface enough to keep the oxygen level AOK...



    Fancy guppies, or a single male betta and/or a male betta and female or two...
    Actually my plan is to make a community tank for male betta, do you think it's possible in 10 gallon tank? Maybe I add 6 neon tetras, 5 corydoras, 1 male betta & some cherry shrimps. Do you think it would be overstock or not?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by HillbillyHomer Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge...i would go with one male and two female Guppys for a 10g tank...Click here to enlarge

    What kind of plants do you plan on having?
    Actually I don't really like fancy guppies.
    I already have some plants in my tank, I have hairgrass I want it as a carpet but I don't know if it could make it because it's hard to get best quality plants in my country mostly they don't take a good care of em so I got a bad one and it's not a tissue culture they planted it on dirt it's really annoying to clean up the dirt from the grass. Also I have rotalla rotudifolia and some cabomba caroliana I bealive, and they came with not in very good condition as well there's no tissue culture in here. I will wait for these plants to establish and then I will add some more plant, I want to have some annubias golden or java fern and some floating plants like duckweed.

    Here's some pictures of my planted tank

    a1.jpg
    Fish net on top left of the aquarium is for fish food for cycling the tank
    a2.jpg
    9w 10k Celvin LED Light
    a3.jpg
    HOB Filter
    a4.jpg
    Added some ceramic rings as a media for beneficial bacteria to live
    a5.jpg
    My 75w heater

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    DIYFK member Esos's Avatar


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    Why my water level always decreasing, it never happens before while I'm only using sponge filter. Now with HOB everyday the water level is decreasing, is it the filter or heater?

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    DIYFK member Meep's Avatar


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    Increased surface agitation in turn increases evaporation, put a cover on the tank to reduce evaporation...

  17. #17
    DIYFK member Esos's Avatar


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    Update

    Just what I thought it would be, the plants aren't survive they're all dead didn't growth. So I remove all the plants but the cycling is keep going, maybe I'll add plants later.

    I had some more questions, can we add plant to any substrate I mean just some regular sand or gravel without any nutrients or anything else like ferts? Because I'm just using black gravel, I thought it just for the root to growth and hold on to and the ferts only makes it grow faster if I don't use ferts it just slower.

    And about the cycling process, I don't have to clean up the fish food that I put right? Just let it decaying in there until the cycling is done?
    Can I do a water change before adding fish? Because the bacteria live in the surface right? Not a free swimming bacteria.

    When I watch a video on youtube it looks like easy but then now I realize it's harder than I thought I can't even makes the plants growth.

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